345 - A Pox on Fools - Thomas Levenson
Summary
Host David McRaney interviews science writer Thomas Levenson about his book "A Pox on Fools," which explores the history and psychology of vaccine hesitancy. They analyze a tense 2026 interview between HHS Secretary RFK Jr. and Dana Bash, highlighting the resurgence of anti-vaccine rhetoric in government. Levenson identifies three core drivers of hesitancy: the belief that vaccines are unnatural, fear of side effects, and reactance to perceived threats to personal agency.
Topics discussed
Intro: Myopia in kids and sponsor ad
HHS Secretary Dana Bash interview on vaccine hesitancy
Context: Anti-vax sentiment at the center of power
Guest intro: Thomas Levenson and his background
Book overview: History of vaccine hesitancy
Polio history: The 'Baba Yaga' of infectious diseases
1952 Polio outbreak and the Cutter incident
Risk perception and motivated reasoning
Sponsors: Essilor and School of Thought
Understanding the deep history of anti-vax arguments
Three major factors leading to vaccine hesitancy
Factor 1: Vaccines seem wrong or unnatural
Historical context: Variolation and theological objections
The 'natural immunity' argument and its flaws
Factor 2: Fear of side effects and historical risks
Factor 3: Autonomy and herd immunity obligations
Legal precedent: Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905)
Modern drivers: Influencers and the autism fraud
Political movements and the erosion of trust in experts
Outro, show notes, and final sponsor message
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