DOGE’S Downfall (with Michael Lewis)
Summary
Michael Lewis discusses his new book, Blockers, which profiles dedicated federal employees targeted by DOGE as "blockers" during its dismantling of government agencies. The conversation explores how the initiative’s chaotic, ideologically driven approach prioritized inflicting suffering and demonstrating power over actual efficiency or deficit reduction. Lewis identifies Russell Vought as the strategic mastermind behind the operation, arguing that the administration’s actions were a calculated power grab rather than a genuine effort to reform waste.
Topics discussed
Sponsors: Fetch and Ring
Introduction of guest Michael Lewis
Defining 'Blockers' and the federal government
Lewis's motivation and the 'bureaucrat' stigma
DOGE's actions and the definition of waste
DOGE's narrow scope and Musk's honesty
The aims and aftermath for DOGE personnel
Ideology vs. competence in government cuts
Probationary workers and the logic of firing
Sponsors: Shopify, Fetch, and Article
The U.S. Institute of Peace case study
The strategy of disruption and 'termites'
Identifying the masterminds: Miller and Vogt
Trump's psychology: trust destruction and cruelty
The five-bullet email and Musk's management
Self-possession and integrity in public service
The banality of evil and tribalism
Encouragement for government workers
Sponsors: Insider, Ring, and Skinny Pop
Listener Q&A: Jack Smith hearing and norms
Listener Q&A: Civic engagement and closing
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