Investigating ‘flow state’ with the bassist from Phish
Jul 7, 2026 · 18m
Summary
Phish bassist Mike Gordon and neuroscientist Dr. Greg Applebaum discuss the science behind musical "flow state." They explore how the band cultivates these transcendent improvisational moments and examine the brain activity, such as alpha waves, associated with them. The conversation also covers Gordon’s project to create a biofeedback device that helps musicians enter and sustain this focused, self-actualized state.
Topics discussed
Sponsors: Con Edison and Progressive Insurance
Introduction: Phish, Mike Gordon, and the mystery of flow
Defining 'Flow': Hooking up and transcendence in music
Musical example: Improvisation in 'Bathtub Gin'
Detecting flow: A three-pronged measurement approach
Neuroscience of flow: Hypofrontality and physiology
Brain waves: Alpha rhythms and signal-to-noise challenges
The Zenbox project: Biofeedback devices for flow
Conclusion: Self-actualization and Phish tour dates
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