Science Friday Science Friday

Investigating ‘flow state’ with the bassist from Phish

Jul 7, 2026 · 18m

Summary

Phish bassist Mike Gordon and neuroscientist Dr. Greg Applebaum discuss the science behind musical "flow state." They explore how the band cultivates these transcendent improvisational moments and examine the brain activity, such as alpha waves, associated with them. The conversation also covers Gordon’s project to create a biofeedback device that helps musicians enter and sustain this focused, self-actualized state.

Topics discussed

Sponsors: Con Edison and Progressive Insurance Introduction: Phish, Mike Gordon, and the mystery of flow Defining 'Flow': Hooking up and transcendence in music Musical example: Improvisation in 'Bathtub Gin' Detecting flow: A three-pronged measurement approach Neuroscience of flow: Hypofrontality and physiology Brain waves: Alpha rhythms and signal-to-noise challenges The Zenbox project: Biofeedback devices for flow Conclusion: Self-actualization and Phish tour dates
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