Why Bosses Get Away With Stealing Your Wages (with Terri Gerstein)
Summary
Nick Hanauer and Goldie Hahn interview Terry Gerstein, director of the NYU Wagner Labor Initiative, about the widespread issue of wage theft and the lack of criminal consequences for employers. The discussion highlights how current penalties are insufficient to deter corporate misconduct and explores how state and local prosecutors can utilize existing criminal statutes to hold businesses accountable. Gerstein argues that treating wage theft as a crime, similar to other property offenses, would significantly improve worker protections and economic fairness.
Topics discussed
Introduction: Middle-out economics and the show's premise
Election day context: The issue of wage theft
Transition to the interview with Terry Gerstein
Guest introduction and the scale of wage theft
The constellation of employer crimes beyond wages
Declining enforcement resources and union density
The asymmetry of criminal liability for workers vs employers
Why wage theft feels 'civil' and the cost of doing business
Deterrence theory: Detection, penalties, and reputation
Prosecuting corporations and criminal justice reform
Progressive prosecutors and reorienting DA offices
Who are the worst offenders? Industries and fissured workplaces
Disproportionate impact on minorities, immigrants, and women
Workplace safety violations and fatal negligence
Case study: Fake safety certifications in NYC
Legal tools: Existing statutes vs new felony laws
Determining criminal vs civil cases and intent
Bipartisanship in wage theft prosecution
Defunding workplace enforcement and the IRS
State and local action as a safeguard
Building a community of practice for prosecutors
Opportunities in worker-hostile states
Benevolent dictator: Policy priorities and the PRO Act
Why Terry does this work: Power disparity
Hosts' wrap-up: Economics, power, and neoclassical critique
Outro and show notes
Listen ad-free on Castria