This CPO regrets that product management exists | Tom Verrilli (CPO of Whatnot)
Summary
Tom Verrilli, CPO of Whatnot, argues that companies should "regret" the overuse of product managers, which infantilizes engineers and designers. He advocates for fewer PMs, assigning them to specific problems rather than teams, and emphasizes that senior leaders should remain hands-on ICs. Verrilli highlights that AI boosts individual leverage and stresses the need for PMs to develop systems thinking over political alignment skills.
Topics discussed
Introduction: Regretting the existence of Product Management
Why PMs were added and how they infantilize engineers
Sponsor: WorkOS
The unglamorous reality of PM work and alignment
How AI and culture shifts are changing PM roles
Whatnot's org structure: Loose groups and DRIs
Hiring traits: Macro vs. micro thinking in PMs
Developing system thinking and risk assessment skills
Why senior leaders should stay hands-on and in the weeds
The bifurcation of PM careers: IC vs. Management
AI enabling deeper technical involvement for PMs
Tools for PMs: Data, prototyping, and live observation
Sponsor: Mercury Command
The changing role of Data Scientists in product teams
The future of product teams and the 'Product Theater' trap
Interviewing PMs: Testing for real skills vs. presentation
Leadership style: Trust, verification, and being in the details
The Accordion Analogy: Balancing strategy and execution
Case Study: Whatnot listings and the future of agentic commerce
Tom's time at Twitter: Lessons on product market fit
Fail Corner: Lessons from past mistakes and scaling
Lightning Round: Books, shows, and career advice
Outro and closing remarks
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