The Roy Cohn Playbook, from McCarthyism to Trump
Summary
Fresh Air host Terry Gross interviews Kai Bird, author of the biography "American Scoundrel," about the life of Roy Cohn. Bird details Cohn’s role as legal counsel for Senator Joe McCarthy, his representation of New York mafia leaders, and his profound influence on Donald Trump’s legal strategies and political worldview. The discussion highlights Cohn’s hypocritical closeted homosexuality and his relentless use of delay and denial to evade justice. Bird argues that Cohn’s legacy reveals the fragile nature of American democracy and the cyclical return of political paranoia.
Topics discussed
Intro: Code Switch and Fresh Air
Kai Bird and Roy Cohn's influence on Trump
Cohn's legal rules: deny, delay, and sue
Avoiding bills, taxes, and leaving paper trails
Trump's view of Cohn and their friendship
Cohn as legal counsel for McCarthy
Interrogation techniques and targeting gay men
Cohn's closeted life and hypocrisy
Political parallels: racism and anti-DEI views
First break and book introduction
Sponsorship and return to interview
Representing the Mafia: The Gotdy case
Evolution of the Trump-Cohn relationship
Cohn's death from AIDS and Trump's reaction
Second break and return
Research methods and finding Cohn's archives
The Mapplethorpe photo and book cover choice
Attempts to out Cohn and his legacy
Lessons on American democracy and paranoia
Outro and sponsorships
Kent Tucker on Dolly Parton's music
Fresh Air credits and final sponsors
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