Stealing St. Nick with M.T. Anderson
Summary
Host Matthew Gabriel interviews National Book Award winner M.T. Anderson about his new book, *Stealing Saint Nick*. They discuss the medieval theft of St. Nicholas’s relics by sailors from Bari, exploring the historical context of Byzantine trade and the syncretic beliefs of the era. Anderson also reflects on his early fascination with the Middle Ages, sparked by a transformative history teacher, and how he uses primary sources to bring the past to life for modern readers.
Topics discussed
Introduction and guest bio: M.T. Anderson
Silly question: Time machine to the Middle Ages
Origin story: Discovering medieval history
Teaching history: Empowering students with sources
Defamiliarizing the past and understanding alterity
Overview of the multiple theft stories of St. Nicholas
Who was St. Nicholas? Historical vs. Santa Claus
St. Nicholas and the transition from paganism to Christianity
The cult of St. Nicholas in the Byzantine Empire
Political context: Bari, Venice, and the Normans
The 1087 Heist: Planning and the initial scout
Primary sources: Translating the chronicler's account
Sponsor break: Spirits podcast and Patreon bonus
The Venetian rivalry and the sledgehammer scene
Visualizing the theft: A cinematic heist
Nicked vs. Stealing St. Nick: Fiction vs. History
Analyzing the chroniclers' biases and motivations
Financial records: The sailors' perpetual stipends
Burial near the saint and the restored basilica
Writing for young readers: Detective work and fabulism
The value of process in historical inquiry
Relic fraud and the Byzantine poem of Christopher
Charlemagne's legends and the Song of Roland
Conclusion and future podcast ideas
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